Stealing Signs

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 01/20/2020 at 09:38 • Filed to: None

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When I heard about the “Sign Stealing” scandal, I envisioned the STOP sign in my brother’s bedroom when we were younger, or the 580 EAST sign my daughter has in her bedroom now, as a young adult . But we’re talking about the catcher in a baseball game signalling to the pitcher what pitch to throw and someone relaying that sign to the batter. Okay, so cheating. How did they actually do it? Was a garbage can somehow involved? Video replay?

sony1492 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 09:44

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“dangerous gases"

MonkeePuzzle > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 09:50

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stealing signs is wrong, mmmkay

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-replaces-420-mile-marker-with-419-99-after-multiple-thefts

benn454 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 10:10

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The Astros used a camera pointed at the catcher to steal the catcher’s signs which were then relayed to the batter by banging on a trashcan near the dugout. The use of technology to steal signs is against the rules. The Red Sox were caught using Apple watches to do this and the Commissioner’s office sent out a memo to all teams not to do it again. The Astros decided to ignore this warning.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 10:10

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Cheating!

In any event, it sounds like a few variations happened. In all of them they had a camera (possibly even part of the normal broadcast setup) in center field to see the catchers signs. Then a few things could happen. They (apparently recently fired Red Sox manager Alex Cora) had a monitor installed next to the Astros dugout (Astros Manager AJ Hinch apparently broke this twice to stop people from using it, which sounds like a guy who really doesn’t have control of his team?). Players could use this monitor to see the signs, and then would signal the batter (sometimes by beating on a trash can). In a more sophisticated approach Cora apparently also at times had guys in a booth working on decoding the signs and sending down the calls to the dugout either via a dugout phone or an Apple watch, at which point players could again signal the batter. Obviously all this had to happen very quickly.

There’s a new accusation that the Astros had some sort of stick on buzzer that would vibrate or send a small shock to the batter if an o ffspeed pitch was coming.

In any event, it’s a bit of a mess, with three managers and a GM fired thus far (though no players punished). I’d be interested to see the home/road splits compared to league average to see if they were actually getting a real advantage (clearly they thought they were).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MonkeePuzzle 01/20/2020 at 10:11

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Brilliant!

Wacko > MonkeePuzzle 01/20/2020 at 10:29

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that makes it more desirable to me.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > benn454 01/20/2020 at 10:51

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Did anyone notice the trash can banging?

MonkeePuzzle > Wacko 01/20/2020 at 10:56

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indeed, I thoguht the same, its now cool and unique and has a story. 

benn454 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 11:07

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 Oh yeah. There's videos on YouTube that you can definitely hear it on. 

Aremmes > MonkeePuzzle 01/20/2020 at 11:09

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PennDOT has to deal with a similar situation in Delaware County. Unfortunately, they cannot just sign the road as PA-419.99, however cool it might be.

benn454 > facw 01/20/2020 at 11:14

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“My wife doesn’t like it when the guys rip off my shirt.”

Sure, Jose. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure...

 And as for splits: no, not really. Most of them actually hit better away.

For Sweden > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 11:32

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mfw someone steals my signs

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 01/20/2020 at 11:36

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Firing managers is cute, but from your account, it sounds like the entire team was complicit. There is so little honor these days. Nothing is sacred.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > benn454 01/20/2020 at 11:36

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The team’s entire franchise  should be suspended for a season, as it sounds like the team was widely involved.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 11:42

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It does seems weak that they didn’t suspend players. The Mets’ Manager, Carlos Beltran was a player when this went down, and wasn’t punished by MLB, but the Mets still fired him just a few months after he was hired. (mutually agreed to part ways ...). There are also rumors he set up a simlar system as a coach with the Yankees last year, but MLB has been very eager to not expand this probe beyond the Astros (they were basically forced to look at the Red Sox because Cora was such a central figure in all this).

benn454 > facw 01/20/2020 at 11:58

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So, looking at the actual numbers from Baseball Reference gives us this:

2017 Home: .279/.340/.472

2017 Away: .284/.351/.483

B-R doesn’t give wRC+ splits, but it does have tOPS+, which is a team’s league-adjusted on-base plus slugging relative to their usual performance. Over 100 means they performed better than usual; under 100 means they were worse than usual.

2017 Home tOPS+ 97

2017 Road tOPS+ 103

 So, not only did they not get any better, they may have actually performed WORSE. They lost their GM, manager, $5 million, and torpedoed their next two drafts for NOTHING. Good job all around, guys. Gold stars for everybody. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 01/20/2020 at 12:07

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In the interest of full disclosure, I should state that I was never athletic and when I was young, I was fat and soft and bullied by jocks. So while I use lots of sport metaphors and understand a bit about various games, I deride sports, professional sports especially, quite often. Because of crap like this, not least. Also, I am an educator and I see students of color coming through with a modicum of real talent who pin all their hopes upon Big Money Sports but who cannot get a C in Algebra 2 and leave full ride scholarship offers sitting on the table. Tax dollars used to build stadiums, traffic jams on the freeways, exploitation of athletes of color, et cetera. Here endeth the synopsis of my standard rant.

Which is not to say that I do not admire athleticism! I watched a woman pedal away with a triathlon championship once from a triathlon-trained athlete and she, who came in second by a wide margin, was as gracious as any athlete I’ve ever seen, having nothing but props for the winner who was close to ten years older than she was and who was an Iron Woman participant.

Money and glory are hugely corrupting and dehumanizing forces.

benn454 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 12:37

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 Any punishment of the players would have had to be ok'd by their union, and with the CBA about to expire, I think they didn't want to risk a strike.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 12:37

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Sign stealing is apart of the game. Every team I played on tried to steal signs if we couldn’t hit a pitcher . If a catcher sucked and had his legs too far open, one of the base coaches would relay signs to us.

The Astros set up a camera system in their stadium to peak into the opposing catcher’s groin and steal signs.

Cheating is apart of the game, but if you get caught you’re still gonna get punished.

ttyymmnn > benn454 01/20/2020 at 13:07

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They may not have been better at home, but maybe they weren’t as bad as they could have been? Any stat you can improve will improve your chances of winning. 

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 01/20/2020 at 13:08

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The inspection sticker on my van reads 4/20. True story, dude.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/20/2020 at 13:10

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I need this sign for my boys’ room. 

benn454 > ttyymmnn 01/20/2020 at 13:56

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 Possible, but considering they gave up on the trashcan method and tried something else makes me believe the Astros didn't think it was doing them any good.